My mother-in-law is in Stage 7 Alzheimer's. Interestingly, she is not suffering (as far as we can tell). But her long-time boyfriend is suffering as he watches her die by inches. In his words, "Ironically, D is the one with the disease, but I am the one who is suffering."
AOW: I recall you posting about your mother-in-law.
Please do find the time to see it, if possible. It is a complicated topic.
On one hand, I find myself viscerally opposed to the idea of ending it all by one's own hand, but working a med/surg floor populated by very elderly people who are suffering/out of their minds while having family that cannot or will not let go prolong their lives with LOTS of invasive procedures...
And what of the 21% who simply 'tire of life' as mentioned in this documentary?
I find myself at a loss. I think it's a matter of letting nature take its course at some point, but I'm not sure where that point is or who/WHO may decide it.
I don't think I could take dictation and type for a new Terry Pratchett Discworld novel. I'd be on the floor rolling in hysterical laughter. The man is a master of geeky satire.
I don't think it is possible to deliver a "merciful death" through euthanasia. I could never help someone end their own life.
I believe life should take it's course. Would it be different if I had a incurable disease that was terribly painful? I don't know. How do you measure what you can or cannot take until you are in that position? I guess if it was terrible enough you could give up.
how very amused and 'above it all' these people seem to be...discussing impending death with "would you like some tea?" And the woman hands him the STUFF and he says "oh, thank you." Gad. Very cordial, very above it all. God help them. I have a very good friend battling MS every day of her life and facing horrible things and her faith lifts her to places I'm not proud to say I could never go.....She's my hero.
These people aren't. Are they entitled? Probably...it's not my call. The young man with MS really broke my heart. Here I was crying for him. The wife of the man who died on camera was hard for me to watch, having last Mr. Z not 2 years ago; I wouldn't have wanted him to suffer. I don't know what he'd have chosen had he not died so prematurely because Amyloidosis is a terrible death, normally. And I feel blessed both of us didn't have to consider this.
I really think some people take 'how civilized' a little too far.
I thought your title was sublime, Brooke...it totally captured that feeling of almost callousness and calm and cordiality. Did you keep wanting to shout "What the HELL? Are you all aware what's happening here, you GHOULS?" Seriously. and this man makes this difficult decision and then allows cameras? wow It seemed slightly literally insane to me. but, maybe having that kind of illness and pain (i guess there's pain for the old man, I know there's pain with MS) might make one insane...and READY.,,,indescribably, eerily ready. May NONE of us ever be that ill. This still haunts me.
A very complicated subject with no no easy answer. I'm sitting here comfortably in my office easy chair, who am I to decide for these people who want to avoid further pain and/or degradation?
From this video, it appears as though Switzerland is handling the matter with dignity and without greed motivated corruption.
I've had many people recommend Discworld to me and I've fended them off because I'm more partial to scifi than fantasy. Having watched Mr. Pratchett's video, I think I'm going to make room for his books.
Watching some of the elderly dementia patients in my unit is horrific. Their families keep them alive with surgeries and meds and keep them on full code status. Meanwhile they are in pain, have no idea why or what's going on, are incontinent, must be turned every two hours to prevent bedsores so they get little to no rest.
It's like torture. Although I am not advocating ending someone's life, on the flip side of the coin I wonder if prolonging the clearly inevitable isn't just as cruel?
I have to say that this film is very thought-provoking.
In my own case, as the caregiver of my husband, I know that I will never have a spouse to caregive me, should I need that kind of overseeing. I have an absolute horror of ending up in a nursing home!
Would I commit suicide? I don't know. But I know that I would consent to withholding treatment were I to contract certain diseases.
From the video: "With Alzheimer's, by the time you are ready to ask for an assisted death, you might not be able to speak."
And there's a conundrum.
BTW, one of our dearest friend suffered for years from MS. His wife insisted upon every possible extraordinary measure. Finally, our friend demanded that the feeding tube be removed (family doctor complied), and our dear friend starved himself to death. His death took about 40 days.
Did our friend commit a sin? I don't think so! His wife should have allowed him to go to the Lord much earlier and stopped insisting upon extraordinary measures.
I often wonder about our friend's wife. She's now in a nursing home and has little say-so about how the remainder of her life will be lived.
Brooke, I couldn't agree with you more. It's one thing to drink the glop with ghouls "oh, THANKs, jolly good cup of tea, by the way..oh, in the garden, how very lovely, but I prefer here, thank you!...now pass me my death!" Gad. and it's another thing to let people GO when they're old and confused and couldn't live without life support. I'm with you. I'm for letting sweet old people go when they're DONE.
AOW, Z: I find that I am in agreement with you both. Extraordinary measures are not always appropriate.
This is very thought provoking. I can see the ones who want to commit suicide's point... Well, to a point, and then there is my own revulsion at the idea.
16 comments:
Beamish recommended the DiscWorld series to me; I should like to hear his opinion on this.
I'll try to find time to watch this.
My mother-in-law is in Stage 7 Alzheimer's. Interestingly, she is not suffering (as far as we can tell). But her long-time boyfriend is suffering as he watches her die by inches. In his words, "Ironically, D is the one with the disease, but I am the one who is suffering."
AOW: I recall you posting about your mother-in-law.
Please do find the time to see it, if possible. It is a complicated topic.
On one hand, I find myself viscerally opposed to the idea of ending it all by one's own hand, but working a med/surg floor populated by very elderly people who are suffering/out of their minds while having family that cannot or will not let go prolong their lives with LOTS of invasive procedures...
And what of the 21% who simply 'tire of life' as mentioned in this documentary?
I find myself at a loss. I think it's a matter of letting nature take its course at some point, but I'm not sure where that point is or who/WHO may decide it.
I don't think I could take dictation and type for a new Terry Pratchett Discworld novel. I'd be on the floor rolling in hysterical laughter. The man is a master of geeky satire.
I don't think it is possible to deliver a "merciful death" through euthanasia. I could never help someone end their own life.
Choice is an very interesting word.
I believe life should take it's course. Would it be different if I had a incurable disease that was terribly painful? I don't know. How do you measure what you can or cannot take until you are in that position? I guess if it was terrible enough you could give up.
I also could not help someone end their own life.
how very amused and 'above it all' these people seem to be...discussing impending death with "would you like some tea?"
And the woman hands him the STUFF and he says "oh, thank you." Gad.
Very cordial, very above it all.
God help them.
I have a very good friend battling MS every day of her life and facing horrible things and her faith lifts her to places I'm not proud to say I could never go.....She's my hero.
These people aren't. Are they entitled? Probably...it's not my call. The young man with MS really broke my heart. Here I was crying for him.
The wife of the man who died on camera was hard for me to watch, having last Mr. Z not 2 years ago; I wouldn't have wanted him to suffer. I don't know what he'd have chosen had he not died so prematurely because Amyloidosis is a terrible death, normally. And I feel blessed both of us didn't have to consider this.
I really think some people take 'how civilized' a little too far.
I don't think I could sit there and watch like this guy forced his wife to do. How completely cruel, especially after she said WE'RE not ready.
I thought that he was afraid to do it and had talked himself into a DO IT NOW mentality.
I found the tour of the 'death house' grotesque. Here's where they die, and then we have our garden.
Ugh!
I thought your title was sublime, Brooke...it totally captured that feeling of almost callousness and calm and cordiality.
Did you keep wanting to shout "What the HELL? Are you all aware what's happening here, you GHOULS?" Seriously.
and this man makes this difficult decision and then allows cameras? wow It seemed slightly literally insane to me. but, maybe having that kind of illness and pain (i guess there's pain for the old man, I know there's pain with MS) might make one insane...and READY.,,,indescribably, eerily ready. May NONE of us ever be that ill.
This still haunts me.
A very complicated subject with no no easy answer. I'm sitting here comfortably in my office easy chair, who am I to decide for these people who want to avoid further pain and/or degradation?
From this video, it appears as though Switzerland is handling the matter with dignity and without greed motivated corruption.
I've had many people recommend Discworld to me and I've fended them off because I'm more partial to scifi than fantasy. Having watched Mr. Pratchett's video, I think I'm going to make room for his books.
Z: Ghoulish is an excellent description.
Watching some of the elderly dementia patients in my unit is horrific. Their families keep them alive with surgeries and meds and keep them on full code status. Meanwhile they are in pain, have no idea why or what's going on, are incontinent, must be turned every two hours to prevent bedsores so they get little to no rest.
It's like torture. Although I am not advocating ending someone's life, on the flip side of the coin I wonder if prolonging the clearly inevitable isn't just as cruel?
Cube: It is indeed a difficult subject.
Beamish recommended the Discworld books to me. :)
I finally have time to watch this today.
I'm still watching and listening.
I have to say that this film is very thought-provoking.
In my own case, as the caregiver of my husband, I know that I will never have a spouse to caregive me, should I need that kind of overseeing. I have an absolute horror of ending up in a nursing home!
Would I commit suicide? I don't know. But I know that I would consent to withholding treatment were I to contract certain diseases.
From the video: "With Alzheimer's, by the time you are ready to ask for an assisted death, you might not be able to speak."
And there's a conundrum.
BTW, one of our dearest friend suffered for years from MS. His wife insisted upon every possible extraordinary measure. Finally, our friend demanded that the feeding tube be removed (family doctor complied), and our dear friend starved himself to death. His death took about 40 days.
Did our friend commit a sin? I don't think so! His wife should have allowed him to go to the Lord much earlier and stopped insisting upon extraordinary measures.
I often wonder about our friend's wife. She's now in a nursing home and has little say-so about how the remainder of her life will be lived.
Brooke, I couldn't agree with you more.
It's one thing to drink the glop with ghouls "oh, THANKs, jolly good cup of tea, by the way..oh, in the garden, how very lovely, but I prefer here, thank you!...now pass me my death!" Gad.
and it's another thing to let people GO when they're old and confused and couldn't live without life support.
I'm with you. I'm for letting sweet old people go when they're DONE.
AOW, Z: I find that I am in agreement with you both. Extraordinary measures are not always appropriate.
This is very thought provoking. I can see the ones who want to commit suicide's point... Well, to a point, and then there is my own revulsion at the idea.
Thanks all for finding the time to watch this; I know it is a rather lengthy video.
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